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Apr 30, 2005 14:20:07 GMT -5
Post by Halo on Apr 30, 2005 14:20:07 GMT -5
I'm going to start this thread out with an old post from Tool Army (Oct. 04). This around when a lot of this shit was being said, and unfortunately I am seeing it starting again. I'll get to the point of this after I post what was said and my reply.
Kick Maynard Out of Tool.
He's a total hollywood boy these days. Lyrics have gone to the pooper from Lateralus to current.
Have you seen this guy lately? One cause-celeb after another. Politics, religion, EVERYTHING.
Now we've got a democratic kabbahlist wine connoisseur. Jesus, would you really EVER hang out with anyone like that? I bet he eats organic food and if he wasn't a rockstar he'd have a personal ad on TheOnion.com and it would say stupid shit like,
"If I could be anywhere at the moment"
'Hilbert space or filbert jungles while tamarinds in tophats shoot arrows at quantum quetzalcoatls.'
Totally fucking gone guys... Too much money has been made and too many fevered egos. Ironic isnt it.
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Apr 30, 2005 14:21:08 GMT -5
Post by Halo on Apr 30, 2005 14:21:08 GMT -5
My reply to this poster:
So much bullshit Jesus Fucking Christ.
"a democratic kabbahlist wine connoisseur" "bet he eats organic food" "one cause celeb after another"
What the hell does it matter to you or anyone what the fuck Maynard does with his personal life?
Seems like so many people just want him to be their own personal Maynard and be whatever the hell they want him to be. Well, he's not. He's his own self.
And if he doesn't act just they way some of the fans want him to.....then fuck him. That's nice. Maynard's not acting like I want him too....oh, fucking cry me a river.
This is so much bullshit. If you don't like the music....fine, don't buy it. But bitching about him being a "wine connoisseur", "a democratic kabbahlist", or whatever else anybody has bitched about it is fucking bullshit. His life is not yours to decide what he does with it.
He gives us his art that is all he has to give us. And he doesn't even have to do that. But we get it. And I'm damn glad we do.
If you don't like his political views...ignore it. But he has every right to express them. If you don't like APC's new cd....don't buy it. If you don't like how you think he lives his personal life.....that's too damn bad, it's none of your business.
I can't believe all the crap I'm reading about how Maynard should be, what Maynard should be, what he shoudn't be, how he should act, how he shouldn't act, what he should say, what he shouldn't say.
Is that up to us? Fuck no.
What if he wants to explore different options in his life? That's his business.
What if he wants to explore different options, approaches to his art? That's his business also. If you don't like it.....don't take it personal. He doesn't make art just for you and how you want it.
He's not a fucking wind up toy for you all to make him do and be just what you want.
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Apr 30, 2005 14:44:33 GMT -5
Post by Halo on Apr 30, 2005 14:44:33 GMT -5
Back around that time there was a lot of "fans" bitching about what Maynard does, bitching about putting eMOTIVe out, bitching about no Tool, bitching about him becoming "political".
It was becoming a constant thing with the fans.
I was pissed off a lot during that period. And I let everyone know it. Heh.
Now, I see it starting again. This was just recently posted:
"Last I heard Maynard was working on a new Tool album. Oh wait, that was true when he went off to record eMOTIVe as well. Shit.
Why the fuck can't he just stay put and get what he needs to get done acocmplished? I'm growing very aggrivated with Tool as a whole at this point, but Maynard especially."
So...this is what I want to know. This what I've never been able to figure out.
Why the hell do people think they can decide when or how artists put out their work? And not only that, apparently some think they know where an artist should or shouldn't live and what that artist should believe/not believe, how they should live their lives.
What the fuck is up with that?
This is a long ass post and long ass rant, I know. But I just don't get it.
I'm trying to figure out what makes these fans think this way and I just can't.
I hate to bring up the whole April Fool's joke, but look at the people that weren't the least bit concerned about Maynard but only that they wouldn't get any more Tool.
Okay....I guess this has turned in to more of a rant than a question. But, still, I'd like to see your opinions on this.
What makes fans think they "own" the artist?
What makes fans think they can "tell" the artist how to live, where to live, when and what to produce?
Why do fans think they can put the artist in a box and label it and think they have to stay there?
Where is the appreciation and gratitude for all the artist does for us?
When I say artist, I do mean all artists, but specifically Maynard as he seems to be a large target for this way of thinking from the fans.
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Apr 30, 2005 18:43:22 GMT -5
Post by fairyblood on Apr 30, 2005 18:43:22 GMT -5
Wow. You pretty much sucked the words out of my mouth just now. I'm glad there are other fans who are here for the music and not all that other bull shit. BANZAI, HALO, BANZAI!
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May 1, 2005 5:23:33 GMT -5
Post by Nessie on May 1, 2005 5:23:33 GMT -5
Halo, I think people saying something like you posted from those people don't seem to be fans any longer. How can they say something like that and be a fan? I don't get it! But the problem is that fans really identify with this person, they make him to some kind of god he really is not. That can be dangerous, but only people that really have some serious problem will ever be "addicted" to a person, otherwise they won't need it. And I think maybe Maynard is simply swamped with what he hears about fans making him to some kind of idol or legend, that's why he says he doesn't get it. And that's what people might interpret as arrogance, but I think it's very scaring to have such a feedback. Although Maynard's private life is none of our business, I think people really wanna know about it, because they are interested in it. And they have a right to be interested (!) in it, Maynard took this risk by being a rock star. Celebrities have to live with that. But he gets a lot out of it too (especially money) and I personally think he should be happy and aware of that responsibility and power he has to his fans. The power of words and music is enormous! He should be thankful everyday that he has the possibility to spread his words to such a big audience. I would be happy if I saved only one life through my words. Nobody can ever be separated from what he/she does (I think that's even something Maynard said once)...so the person belongs to the music and vice versa. Another thing is that usually it is impossible to be such a fan of music itself....being a fan means to identify with a person, it might be through music or art generally, but it always relates to a person! And we all here seem to be interested in the person Maynard, not just his music, otherwise we would not be here discussing day by day about his art and how great he is, but what I really love in here is that personal note everybody brings in. There's at least the same space for personal discussions as it is for MJK-related topics. That's really great! And everybody can share his own work and words and if we can help somebody we will be glad about it and feel proud that we have this possibility. So Halo, I know that you always try to enforce somehow that people should stay out of his life, but I just guess maybe it is impossible to separate him from his art, although I totally agree that there's a thin line between being interested and disturbing his privacy. And what these guys said about him is definitely crossing the line and they should be ashamed for saying something like this! (But please don't get me wrong, Halo, I know that you are not trying to separate Maynard from his music )
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May 1, 2005 10:56:34 GMT -5
Post by Halo on May 1, 2005 10:56:34 GMT -5
So Halo, I know that you always try to enforce somehow that people should stay out of his life, but I just guess maybe it is impossible to separate him from his art, although I totally agree that there's a thin line between being interested and disturbing his privacy. And what these guys said about him is definitely crossing the line and they should be ashamed for saying something like this! (But please don't get me wrong, Halo, I know that you are not trying to separate Maynard from his music ) Nessie, I'm not talking about people disturbing his privacy. This is not about separating the man from the music. This is not about the fans that think he is "god". I'm talking about fans that think they "own" him (or other musicians) and can dictate when and how he puts the music out. It's about the fans that think they have a right to bitch about how he lives his life and what he does with it if it interrupts them getting "their" music when they want it. I've seen many say that the fans are the ones that keep the stars alive. The fans are the ones that pay the stars to live by buying the music, tickets to shows, t-shirts, etc. This is so much bullshit. They buy those things because they want to....it's their choice. But they seem to feel since they "pay" for the music, that the musician "works" for them. (I have literally seen people post this kind of shit) The artist gives us their art as a gift. Of course we have to pay for it, they do have to be able to support themselves in order to bring us the music. But many people don't see it as a gift, they think it is "expected" of the artist and they damn well better produce. Although Maynard's private life is none of our business, I think people really wanna know about it, because they are interested in it. And they have a right to be interested (!) in it, Maynard took this risk by being a rock star. Celebrities have to live with that. But he gets a lot out of it too (especially money) I have to disagree with you here. People always says this. That celebrities chose this life so they have to accept and "live with" people wanting to dig in to their personal life. No, I don't believe people have this "right". You cannot separate the man from his music. The music doesn't just come out of nowhere so yes, we are going to identify the music with the man. But that does mean we need to or have any right to know about his personal life. Being curious about where the music comes from, how he feels about the music, what his inspiration for the music is or where it comes from....these are all things I can agree with. But beyond the music.....his life is his life and he should be able to keep that private. Why would anyone need to know who he is dating, how he lives his life, what he eats, where he lives, what his child is like, who his child's mother is or when he takes a shit. None of this has anything to do with the music or tells us anything about the music. Just because we buy his art, does not give us the right to know everything about him. Celebrities have a right to privacy just like the rest of us. I do not believe that once you become a celebrity your life becomes the publics life. Just because people say, "they are in the public eye and they should expect this".....does not mean it is right. Celebrities have to live with that. But he gets a lot out of it too (especially money) Why do people always bring up the money? He does his job and he gets paid for it. It's not a little extra perk of being a celebrity. He works for his money, just as we do. We all get paid for what we do for a living, don't we?
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May 1, 2005 12:18:25 GMT -5
Post by Nessie on May 1, 2005 12:18:25 GMT -5
Why do people always bring up the money? He does his job and he gets paid for it. It's not a little extra perk of being a celebrity. He works for his money, just as we do. We all get paid for what we do for a living, don't we? Yeah, we get paid for what we do for a living and so get all the celebrities too. And they get extra perk for being a celebrity and that is money and fame. Musicians just get paid for being musician, rock stars get a lot of money extra...not just for being a musician or a singer. This is definitely a 24/7 job, but they get reward for it. And I really think that if they would not get the money, they would not do it, because idealism does not fill your hungry stomach! So money is always brought up, because it's our main drive why we work and try to get better, because we want reward for it! If you do beneficial work too, i't some other reward you get, like respect and that you helped and made something better. So I'm really not that money driven, but money has more power than it should have! I only said that people have the right to be interested in somebody, not to dig into their personal life. I just think it's understandable that people want to know more about celebrities. But it's really too much when they think they own them, I totally agree with you on that! It's really everybody's own decision to buy CD's, Shirts and stuff, but that doesn't mean they pay the star to work for them. Although it might have sounded differently, but I really agree that his music is a gift to us, but it's also a gift for himself, he should also be (and I think he is) happy and feel blessed!
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May 1, 2005 14:06:44 GMT -5
Post by roving_eye on May 1, 2005 14:06:44 GMT -5
Kick Maynard Out of Tool.
...... someone needs to seriously get a life. maynard/tool do not tell him what to do with his life or his career, why does he feel he should be able to dictate what they do? or that his opinion should matter? it doesn't. they create their art because they want to. you can make the choice of supporting it.... or not. i know a lot of struggling artists who don't make vast amounts at what they do but they do it because it's their passion. if they make a few bucks at it, great, but it doesn't influence their direction or their art. as it should be. i have to agree, that what's done in their personal lives is no one's business. if they choose to share aspects of it, to help us understand what may have inspired a particular piece, then fine, though it's not necessary. all artforms are interpreted by patrons as it pertains/relates to their own lives, not necessarily the artist. that's the beauty of art. it's too bad "celebs" get picked on because of their chosen career. but some organizations have to make money somehow and, unfortunately, there are plenty of people that buy the crap and encourge it. do i really care who they're dating or what hollywood party they're attending? no, not really. do i care about what movie they're working on or when they're going to be releasing a cd? hell yes. as far as fans feeling they 'own' the artist. that's a shitty form of support. artists don't owe us anything. i wish they would quit being so self-righteous. and so critical. if you don't like something, cut the cord and move on. why should an artist change their vision just to make someone else happy? where's the sincerity in that? i just don't get those type of posts. thankfully.
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May 1, 2005 18:51:26 GMT -5
Post by Bastardometer on May 1, 2005 18:51:26 GMT -5
What I think it is , I've already touched on on previous threads. When someone discovers a band that they connect to on a higher level , that connection becomes a false reality. They start to think that the band/artist is "theirs" and no body else "gets it" the way that they do. As time passes the , connection intensifies and the fan feels like they have a right to make personal judgements about the artist. They feel like the art is just as much theirs' as it is the artists'. So , with that mentality , why would'nt they voice their dissapproval. The band has become theirs', emotionally. I remember when people thought Tool "sold out" when Undertow was realesed. "Its not heavy enough" , "Its too mellow", "MJK doesn't sing the same" , "Its too radio friendly" etc...... Now I think this is all subconscious , and the fan really doesn't think that their judgement is inappropriate. When they allow themselves the false ability to make such statements about what someone else needs to do or not to do. Trust me , it's not appropriate.
I'm not religeous , but I think what Jesus said holds some validity to this subject :
Matthew 7 Verse 3 "Why do you look at the mote in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the beam in your own eye? " Verse 4 "How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the mote out of your eye,' when all the time there is a beam in your own eye? " Verse 5 "You hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the mote from your brother's eye."
Mote = A very small particle; a speck Beam = A squared-off log or a large, oblong piece of timber, metal, or stone used especially as a horizontal support in construction.
As far as all the "Now we've got a democratic kabbahlist wine connoisseur" statements. The real funny thing to me is that this behavior is not "new". He's been into wine for awhile , at least since Ænima. (Thanks to Tori) And , he's allways been politcal. Don't these people read interviews? Most people want everything now. An "instant" society. People want to know the ending to the movie before they see it or hear the punch line before they hear the joke. They don't want to be in that vulnerable state. But its okay , people , to be surprised or shocked. The reward will be much greater and you might even learn something about yourself. Enjoy the journey.
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May 1, 2005 21:45:02 GMT -5
Post by Halo on May 1, 2005 21:45:02 GMT -5
why should an artist change their vision just to make someone else happy? where's the sincerity in that? Exactly! Thank you, eye. That is what I've tried to tell people when they start this shit. If people think they can dictate what an artist does and how he does it......then it would not be true art. It would be the artist appeasing his fans and not creating anything special, not creating a work of art. And then, how happy would they really be with the music?
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ravenous
Full MJK Fan
Try to read between the lines
Posts: 123
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May 6, 2005 8:00:56 GMT -5
Post by ravenous on May 6, 2005 8:00:56 GMT -5
I've been irratated by some posts I read too. Things about him being too political and all that bull. I look at it this way...they are not 'real' fans. They have no right to say and accuse things like how he live his personal life, what songs he creates etc. Your right if they don't like it then they should just fuck off!(sorry!). They clearly don't appreciate him. But I know for one thing...Maynard wouldn't care. I bet he wouldn't even bat an eyelid. He lives and is the way he wants to be. Thats one reason why I respect him. I thought emotive was a great idea and a good album. I don't bother answering posts like that. Either I ignore them or just post 'well its easy to seperate the real fans of Maynard or tool or a perfect circle and they're art'. Clearly the people posting things like that are not. As long as Maynard believes in himself and what he does I'll always appreciate and have respect for him.
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May 6, 2005 8:48:30 GMT -5
Post by LetItSlide on May 6, 2005 8:48:30 GMT -5
Completely retarded (sorry LOL).
It's really easy to sit at the computer and mouth off about how someone should/shouldn't act, what they should/shouldn't do, how and where an artist's art should be put out. People forget that the only reason they can come out and say that stuff is because the artist put the music out in the first place. It makes me so angry sometimes when I read posts like that because it just seems like people can't appreciate what Maynard has done and what he is in the process of doing. Because his songs are so personal (or at least seem that way) I feel like Maynard shares so much of himself with us. It's kind of sad that people can't appreaciate that.
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May 8, 2005 16:55:50 GMT -5
Post by Nessie on May 8, 2005 16:55:50 GMT -5
It's kind of sad that people can't appreaciate that. but we do, so that should be enough
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May 8, 2005 19:24:12 GMT -5
Post by Halo on May 8, 2005 19:24:12 GMT -5
but we do, so that should be enough That's right! This board has the best fans ever!! And we're just damn good people. (Goofy as hell, but good people.)
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May 9, 2005 5:12:45 GMT -5
Post by Nessie on May 9, 2005 5:12:45 GMT -5
how boring would it be if we were NOT goofy...
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