USA

[Bastardometer]

You are not going to get peace with millions of armed men. The chariot of peace cannot advance over a road littered with cannon's.
- David Lloyd

Either war is obsolete or men are.
- R. Buckminster Fuller

We have to face the fact that either all of us are going to die together or we are going to learn to live together and if we are to live together we have to talk.
- Eleanor Roosevelt

Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent.
- Issac Asimov

Older men declare war. But it's the youth who must fight and die!
- Herbert Hoover

You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake.
- Jeannette Rankin

The pioneers of a warless world are the youth that refuse military service.
- Albert Einstein

Our only hope today lies in our ability to recapture the revolutionary spirit and go into a sometimes hostile world declaring eternal hostility to poverty, racism, and militarism.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war, there is nothing sweet nor fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason.
- Ernest Hemmingway

[Halo]

Those are great bastard.

Thank You!

[voiceofgod]

Yeah and you're not gonna get peace by speaking either. Those are nice quotes, but did they change the world? No. Peace is a nice concept, but it's impossible. It will never work. So what if we pulled all our soldiers from Iraq. So what if we cancelled all militray and national defense systesm, the fact would still remain that there is still bad in the world. Someone will always attack us and want the US to perish regardless of intial attack or warranted action. If you're not willing to step in and try to stop it then shame on you. It's like watching a buddy of yours rape a girl. And you just sit there and let it happen. Are you not responsible? Do not hold the same punishment he should? Sadaam was a menace to Iraq and Bush took action. Not because he wanted oil, not because he wanted prestige or world domination. He did it because it was the right thing to do. What did peace rallies and signs and posters ever do? Nothing. Did they help free slaves? Did they free Iraqis? Did they rid the world of a dictator and regime? No they didn't. A man with a plan did. A man willing to sacrifice lives because he knew that the cause was greater than anyone bloodshed. Action speaks louder than words. We can sit here and protest and talk and blah blah blah. The bottom line is if you want results, you make them. You don't talk about them.

[Bastardometer]

You'll have a differnt view once you grow and evolve
Thats not a burn , just how it is - perspectives change with age (unless your a redneck). If your a person that wants to devolope higher awarness , you'll need to embrace diferent views/thoughts

If we can't learn from our for fathers , who can we learn from ?
Plus have wars changed the world ? If wars worked there would have been 1 and that would have been it , right?
If someone says/does something you don't like , and you beat him down for it - and he does the same thing again - did the ass whoppen work ?
I'm not talking about defending yourself , its just soo many ignorant people think 911 was us defending ourselves and it wasn't . Maybe we're the bullies , maybe we need to stop and look at ourselves .
As far as being free , hmmmm , I don't know - the Patriot Act scares the shit out of me
US government has already taken' away women's / civil rights - how far will it go ?
Do some research
I think time is a good eye opener

I'm not trying to change your mind - I don't want to change your mind , be yourself - come to your own conclusions
I'm trying to provoke thought , I'm trying to provoke understanding

[Bastardometer]

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.
- Ernest Hemingway

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?
- Gandhi

I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in.
- George McGovern

So long as there are men there will be wars.
- Albert Einstein

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
- Albert Einstein

Never has there been a good war or a bad peace.
- Benjamin Franklin

Are bombs the only way of setting fire to the spirit of a people? Is the human will as inert as the past two world-wide wars would indicate?
- Gregory Clark

[voiceofgod]

I honestly don't think my age has anything to do with this. I can make a mature and rational thought regardless of my age. My views will not change. If it wasn't for war this country wouldn't exist. We wared with England to get our Independence. We wared with each other to free slaves. We wared with German twice to save the world. If this country had just laid down and said "peace, man" we'd all be speaking German. War is essential. It helps to spread culture, helps the economy and gives us something to fight for. To me it's inspirational. And this isn't my age speaking, whatever that means. I do have a lot of different views and thoughts, but I am firm in this belief and I will not change. From now until I die. I am done with this discussion because I don't feel it's about the USA anymore. Feels like a personal vendetta and it isn't comfortable so good day.

[Bastardometer]

voiceofgod said:

I honestly don't think my age has anything to do with this. I can make a mature and rational thought regardless of my age. My views will not change. If it wasn't for war this country wouldn't exist. We wared with England to get our Independence. We wared with each other to free slaves. We wared with German twice to save the world. If this country had just laid down and said "peace, man" we'd all be speaking German. War is essential. It helps to spread culture, helps the economy and gives us something to fight for. To me it's inspirational. And this isn't my age speaking, whatever that means. I do have a lot of different views and thoughts, but I am firm in this belief and I will not change. From now until I die. I am done with this discussion because I don't feel it's about the USA anymore. Feels like a personal vendetta and it isn't comfortable so good day.

?
#1 My motive was not to make you uncomfortable
#2 You want people to accept/hear your point of view but I feel you are unwilling to listen to anyone else
#3 I'm German
#4 Half of this country does not speak english
#5 Alarmed that you would take anything I say personally ,I was just expressing my perspective (doesn't make me/you right , wrong , left , green , nothing)
#6 To limit yourself to never change your mind on ANY subject is limiting yourself and your worth more than that

[Halo]

voiceofgod said:

I Feels like a personal vendetta and it isn't comfortable so good day.

Why would you take a politcal debate as a personal attack vog? No one is against you. We simply have different opinions.

Bastard and I have been opposing your opinions....not you.

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again. Everyone has a right to their opinions. But that does not mean I have to agree with them. I have my own opinions. If I disagree with you, it absolutely does not mean I don't like you, it simply means our opinions on something differ.

My opinions and I know bastard's as well, are not a personal attack. We are all simply having a debate....a give and take of opinions. It's not personal.

I would hope that if you truly do believe in all that you say you do, you would stand by your convicitons and not just give up when you run in to a little adversity.

I could have easily decided not to voice my opinions in fear of you not liking me by doing so. But is that how you want your friends to be? To just go along with everything you say, never have a difference of opinion, never disagree with you just so you'd like them? I would think (and hope) you'd be pretty bored with friends like that.

And had I done that, I wouldn't have been true to myself.

Be true to yourself vog. Stand up to the adversity. Hold on to your convictions and your beliefs. No one wants anything different from you.

We disagree with you, but we don't dislike you dear.

[voiceofgod]

It's just the way I feel. I'm sick of feeling like I'm on the defensive all the time. I'm done discussing politics on this board.

[Bastardometer]

[Halo]

voiceofgod said:

It's just the way I feel. I'm sick of feeling like I'm on the defensive all the time. I'm done discussing politics on this board.

Do what you want. But you shouldn't feel like you're are the defensive all the time. All you are doing is giving your opinions. And we are giving ours.

It's not an attack.....it's a debate of ideas and opinions.

Besides, you started this, remember? You liked being the "bad guy". Politics is a subject and if you don't think you can take the heat, you shouldn't start something.

But, if it means we keep the peace here, with you, we'll end it here. At least with you. If anyone else wants to jump in, they are welcome to.

[alienation]

Cute smiley bastard!!

VOG, I just think your opinion is probably in the minority here. But that doesn't mean we can't have a friendly debate or exchange of ideas. No one is attacking you. Maybe you just take it a little personally because you feel so passionately about the issue. Don't feel discouraged, we're all friends here! ;D

[Halo]

alienation said:

we're all friends here! ;D

Of course we are!

We just hate Bush supporters.

I'm kidding!! I'm kidding!! ;D

(we still love ya vog, even if you are one of "those" people. )

[voiceofgod]

I'm not upset or angry with anyone. And everybody knows I love a good debate and I respect all of your opinions. This board means alot to me and I would never approach anybody's belief or opinion without an open mind. But just put yourself in my shoes. I'm the only person on my side of the debate. Naturally I am going to feel attacked just because I have no one to back me up. I'm out here naked and alone. It's just hard to keep something going when it feels like you're the only one fighting for it. I am honestly exhausted from going back and forth. Just because I do feel like I'm on the defensive. Not because you guys are necessarily attacking, but just cause I'm defending an issue alone. It's easy for you guys because 50 different people can chime in against me. Anyway, just wanted to say sorry if I came across angry or aggressive. I just get frustrated of defending my views alone.

So no hard feelings guys!

[Halo]

No hard feelings vog. I guess i can understand where you are coming from when you have pretty much the whole board's opinions differing from yours on this subject.

I guess I can't blame you for not wanting to get ganged up on.