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USA
Feb 14, 2005 12:04:03 GMT -5
Post by voiceofgod on Feb 14, 2005 12:04:03 GMT -5
I love my country. God bless America!
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USA
Feb 14, 2005 12:16:41 GMT -5
Post by Nyarlathotep on Feb 14, 2005 12:16:41 GMT -5
I have a bumper sticker on my car that says "God bless the whole world - no exceptions."
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USA
Feb 14, 2005 12:18:43 GMT -5
Post by voiceofgod on Feb 14, 2005 12:18:43 GMT -5
I have a bumper sticker on my car that says "God bless the whole world - no exceptions." Right on. Ditto to the phrase. But I'll go ya one better, God Bless the Universe. LOL. That is true, I shouldn't keep my blessings to myself. God bless everyone in the world.
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USA
Feb 14, 2005 12:44:13 GMT -5
Post by Halo on Feb 14, 2005 12:44:13 GMT -5
I don't know about God....but yea, the whole universe needs to be blessed, not just the USA.
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USA
Feb 14, 2005 12:44:50 GMT -5
Post by voiceofgod on Feb 14, 2005 12:44:50 GMT -5
I don't know about God....but yea, the whole universe needs to be blessed, not just the USA. not religious I take it
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USA
Feb 14, 2005 13:40:47 GMT -5
Post by Halo on Feb 14, 2005 13:40:47 GMT -5
Not particularly.
Lost my faith a long time ago.
But don't worry, I have nothing against anyone who does believe. I don't judge anyone or their beliefs.
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USA
Feb 14, 2005 13:43:20 GMT -5
Post by voiceofgod on Feb 14, 2005 13:43:20 GMT -5
Not particularly. Lost my faith a long time ago. But don't worry, I have nothing against anyone who does believe. I don't judge anyone or their beliefs. would i be crossing the line if i asked why? believe me i am far from religious. I don't judge and I don't believe in God in the traditional sense. my beliefs are far from normal. but i understand if you don't want to talk about it. I've hated god before and I'm sure we'll seperate again.
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USA
Feb 14, 2005 16:55:47 GMT -5
Post by Halo on Feb 14, 2005 16:55:47 GMT -5
I think I just got to a point in my life when I had been abused one too many times and I felt very, very alone. And then I realized that I was alone. I wondered why for so many years I had “talked” to this “being”. What was the purpose? I took everything in my house that had any religious connotations and threw them away. I felt stupid for thinking that there was “someone” “out there” that cared about me, that watched after me. I felt silly for talking to “him” all those years when I was really just talking to myself. I never even really felt that this god had abandoned me. It wasn’t like I got mad at this god. I wasn’t mad at anyone but myself for believing so long. I let go of faith, belief and hope and forced myself to realize that the only thing that is going to get me through life…..is me. I have to just be the best person I can be and forge on. No sense in believing there is something out there that is going to help me on my way, there never has been, so why continue to think there will be. Faith, anymore to me, just means being blind. As far as hope, I think Nietzshe said it best: Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
Other things came in to question. I wondered why, if I had messed up I was asking “god” for forgiveness. If I fuck up, the only person that needs to hear my apologies is the person I may have hurt. And then I need to try and forgive myself. What was this supposed being going to do? It is my responsibility to make things right. Using this god, to ask forgiveness, to me, is a cop out. If I fuck up the only forgiveness that can be given, that can mean anything is from the person I hurt. I can’t feel right about asking some “god” for forgiveness and then thinking everything is alright.
All I know is that I have me. All those things that I lost, faith, hope and belief. I didn’t really lose them per say. I lost them in the sense that I could never again apply them to any outside force. I just realized that I can only have faith in myself, believe in myself and hope that I can just do the best that I can, be the best person that I can be. I have come to realize that the only person I can depend on to always be there for me….is me.
(And also my best friend: Music. I know, it will always be there for me.)
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USA
Feb 15, 2005 9:12:23 GMT -5
Post by voiceofgod on Feb 15, 2005 9:12:23 GMT -5
Music>God IMO
Wow, I agree with all that. I don't go to church or pray. But I feel something is out there. Might not be God though. My just the power of those who radiant something brillant. I don't know, but I know we are not alone. Whether you want to call it spirits, or aliens, or mojo, or just plain hibbie-jibbies. But there's some kind of power out there to draw force off of. I feel it when I medititate. But I agree. Your life is in your own hands. You can't rely on any one else, God or man. You make it your own way. You're an awesome person Halo. You've made me think alot. And if there is a God out there (which I'm not here to say there is), he gave up on us along time ago and doesn't give a shit anyway.
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USA
Feb 15, 2005 19:29:52 GMT -5
Post by alienation on Feb 15, 2005 19:29:52 GMT -5
Back to the original topic, I don't get patriotism. Are you saying you think the US is a great country? Why? Do you agree with its policies? Are you ok with the way the founders treated individuals who lived here before them/us (Native Americans and Mexicans)? Are you proud of its history of slavery and oppression? Do I have to like this country just because I was born here? A very telling question is to ask yourself how you would feel about the US if you were born in Australia, Canada, England, etc. I think anyone who 'loves' the US must buy into the fallacy that it is a meritocracy (which is just what the governmaent wants you to believe because it makes you very productive). The facts are that our country doesn't provide health care or education to the people who need it the most. A capitalistic society is selfishly driven with no regard for the world outside of that society (or, really, even the working class who drive that same society). The reality of the situation is that the US is 6% of the world's population, but consumes 1/4 of the world's energy, makes 1/4 of the world's Carbon emissions, produces 1/3 of the world's solid waste, and won't even admit that these problems exist (for example by not signing the Kyoto Protocol). So please enlighten me, what the FUCK am I supposed to be proud of? BTW, this is not a personal attack, just general indignation.
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USA
Feb 15, 2005 19:56:19 GMT -5
Post by Halo on Feb 15, 2005 19:56:19 GMT -5
Applauds alienation!!
I do love my country....but proud of it is another story.
Although I do hope that one day we can be proud of America again.
But that will only happen if we all do our part. What sickens me is the people that think "their part" is going out and putting in their vote. After that.....they are done. They did their part. Bullshit. It all starts at home with each individual. We don't have to work in the "big" politics. It's starts right there in your own community. Do your part, pitch in and volunteer, keep an eye on your local politicians, become involved in your community.
We may not see a whole lot of change in our lifetime. But do we really want to leave the legacy to our children and grandchildren that we did nothing. Sorry we left you with this mess, but we didn't feel like getting involved. No, we need to leave the legacy that we worked our asses of to try and make this a better country for all and especially for future generations. And then maybe that future generation can take what we started and continue on.
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USA
Feb 15, 2005 20:12:53 GMT -5
Post by alienation on Feb 15, 2005 20:12:53 GMT -5
I'm glad that you agree, Halo. I tend to see things in a 'big picture' sort of way. And I know my existence doesn't mean shit to the world, but my actions sure can. What I mean is, when I die, the world will go on. And what will I have done to make it any better? We all make it worse, so we must contribute in some way to offset this. I am also very socially driven. I feel a social responsibility to mankind, and moreover, the Earth. We could solve a lot of problems if our culture would just stick to our replacement values (each couple not having more than two children).
As an aside, this is why I love Bad Religion. This so brings to mind the songs "The world won't stop without you" and "10 in 2010" (which refers to the population explosion).
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USA
Feb 16, 2005 8:30:24 GMT -5
Post by voiceofgod on Feb 16, 2005 8:30:24 GMT -5
Well I for one do not want to live in a country where a dictatorship rules my everyday life and I constantly live in fear that a terror regime will break into my home for no reason I slaughter me and my entire family. For that I am greatful to live here. I don't want to live in a country where woman can't vote and can't show any expression or personal creativity. As for Canada, a lot of the general population speaks French. France desicrated (sp?) US soldiers lives who died fighting for a cause and died to get Hitler out of their country. To me all French people or French speaking people can rot slow and horrible. Sure this country has had it's problems, but every country does. I obviously do not agree with all of our polocies, but I feel it is necessary to step in on the behalf of someone else who can not defend itself. I feel we did the right thing by going to Iraq. It's like if you were at a party and saw one of your friends raping a girl and did nothing. When you had the power to stop it and let it happen. That's wrong. Iraqi people were being slaughter and enslaved and we stepped in to stop it. I am not brainwashed by anything this country does. IMO everybody else is brainwashed by media exposure. The media puts an evil spin on everything. I happen to work for a military base and I know all the good things we do in the world. All the awesome things we do that never get reported because good news doesn't sell. I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but I love this country. If you don't like it then move somewhere else. Enough said, no sense in arguing over a never ending debate. There are pros and cons to both our arguments so whose to say if I'm right or you're right. There will be supporters for both. (At least I hope somebody supports me!! )
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USA
Feb 19, 2005 17:53:11 GMT -5
Post by alienation on Feb 19, 2005 17:53:11 GMT -5
As for Canada, a lot of the general population speaks French. France desicrated (sp?) US soldiers lives who died fighting for a cause and died to get Hitler out of their country. To me all French people or French speaking people can rot slow and horrible. I'm afraid you've discredited yourself with this statement. Tolerance.........get some. This leads me to believe you are biased, you can overlook the atrocities of your own country, but not others. So do you hate all Germans, then, for what they did to the Jews? Or is that ok because it wasn't an act upon "your" country? But seriously, you can't condemn an entire culture because of the language they speak (or religion they have, or just because they are different than you). How can the current population be held accountable for what their ancestors did? I don't see how French speaking people in Canada or Haiti can be to blame for the desecrations you speak of. But relating to the other stuff, it seems we aren't in disagreement. Of course I enjoy the relative safety and security provided by my country. And I totally value the men and women whose job it is to provide that. But I don't support the war or our political agendas. I'm a skeptic and perhaps too hasty to scream "conspiracy" (like Maynard, LOL), so I have my doubts about our real reasons for going to war. And I am not denying that we do some good, but it is not enough to offset all the wrongs, imo. (And I'm assuming since you didn't argue with any of my points you see their validity?) And this Bad Religion song sorta sums up my point of view. "It's superficial progress, they call it a liberation. With opiates of silicon, big brother schemes to rule the nation. We're one nation under god, we stand above the rest, with mighty high technology, we're never second best. Our speciality is infiltration! So pack your bags you third world nation, victory through domination!"
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USA
Feb 20, 2005 22:19:32 GMT -5
Post by Halo on Feb 20, 2005 22:19:32 GMT -5
so I have my doubts about our real reasons for going to war. And I am not denying that we do some good, but it is not enough to offset all the wrongs, imo. (And I'm assuming since you didn't argue with any of my points you see their validity?) I think you really have no doubts about the real reasons we went to war, L. I don't either. I think we both know the truth and it isn't WMD's. Although you say you don't deny we have done some good but it does not offset the wrongs. I'm not sure what good we have done at all. I have a cousin who is married to a man from Iraq. Most of his family is still there. What is left of them. "We" decided the Iraqis needed our help. They did not ask for it. From what Sal says, even though they did not like Saddam, they knew what they were up against. Kinda like the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. We came in and bombed the shit out of their country, their homes. We killed countless innocent people. Yes, many of our soldies died also. We hear about them, we don't hear about the innocent Iraqis that have died. I get so sick of the one-sided news reporting. So we had those pictures of people cheering when Saddam's statue came down. What a wonderful media opportunity. That was a handful of people. What about the rest of the people that have no water, no food, no homes because of our bombings? Why don't we do a story on them? Why don't we hear what most of them have to say? Because it would make us look bad and we can't have that. We need it to look like we are the heroes over there.
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